Though we have any number of disgusting displays to choose from these days, this one that HufPo’s Sam Stein writes up (with audio clips) may be the stinkiest of the pile:
Three days after receiving $25 billion in federal bailout funds, Bank of America Corp. hosted a conference call with conservative activists and business officials to organize opposition to the U.S. labor community’s top legislative priority.
Participants on the October 17 call — including at least one representative from another bailout recipient, AIG — were urged to persuade their clients to send “large contributions” to groups working against the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), as well as to vulnerable Senate Republicans, who could help block passage of the bill. …
Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus and “Center for Union Facts” founder Rick Berman led the call, with Marcus easily winning the Most Hysterical prize. “This is the demise of a civilization,” he screeched. “This is how a civilization disappears. I am sitting here as an elder statesman and I’m watching this happen and I don’t believe it. … If a retailer has not gotten involved in this, if he has not spent money on this election, if he has not sent money to Norm Coleman and all these other guys, they should be shot. They should be thrown out their goddamn jobs. … This bill may be one of the worst things I have ever seen in my life,” he raved on, emoting that he could have been on “a 350-foot boat out in the Mediterranean” if he didn’t have to be on the horn trying to prop up Norm Coleman, Gordon Smith, Mitch McConnell, Liddy Dole, and Roger Wicker (oop). John Cole’s response has it just about right:
If this is true, not another damned dime. … In the most serious economic crisis in decades, and these folks are spending the money to organize to crush labor.
Seriously, if this is accurate, these people are sick.
Of course they’re sick, just like their flunkies in the House, who can’t even keep their bad-faith arguments straight. Boehner & Co’s latest claim is that the stimulus package doesn’t include enough housing aid — which is pretty funny, since they voted against same last week. Check out the two emails Ben Smith received from the Hill — one from a GOPer in unprintable hysterics, the other from an amused Dem — they’re about all you need to see. The Republican Party’s only hope, its Congressional members seem to think, is maiming or, preferably, killing the stimulus bill. As Balloon Juice’s DougJ puts it, “At this point, they’re actively rooting for millions of Americans to be out of work. They’re barely even pretending not to.”
The Hill GOP’s consternation is so apparent that Rush Limbaugh thinks POTUS is “obviously more frightened of me than he is Mitch McConnell. He’s more frightened of me, than he is of, say, John Boehner, which doesn’t say much about our party.” Though Limbaugh’s chances of scaring Obama are no better than Zawahiri and bin Laden’s, the taunt so upset Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga), he tried to shush Rush. (I guess Gingrey, like Josh, saw Pollster.com’s poll-of-polls showing support for Obama’s plan quite high, support for Boehner and McConnell, um, not.) UPDATE: Same with the economists.
Meanwhile, the RNC starts its meeting in Washington today with only one unifying idea: George W. Bush.
The rest of the country has a better one, so I’ll end this post with it. “This is wonderful,” as duckweedpond says: New York Times photographer Bill Cunningham, who usually does fun reviews of the get-ups seen on the streets of New York, ran down to Washington for Inauguration Day to snap and narrate “On the Streets: The Fabric of History.” What he found there is driving the GOP wild.
The C-L’s headcount on the
bailout(oops, I mean stimulus): Bennie Thompson “yes,” Gregg Harper “no,” Travis Childers “undecided,” and Gene Taylor “could not be reached for comment” (the SH says “no”); Thud says he’s “extremely wary” and Wicker “also is critical of the bill.”“could have been on “a 350-foot boat out in the Mediterranean” “-For the life of me, I just can’t wrap my head around someone so amoral to actually make a statement like this. But I do know you won’t see me in a Home Depot ever again!
lotus @ 1: with dems like childers and Taylor who needs Repubs?
McClatchy:
This is so bad it’s good — good for the country to see how overpaid, condescending corner-office crazies speak when they think they’re off the record, revealing their labor-hate fixations the way the Klan revealed its race-hate fixations and the “Reverand” Fred Phelps revealed his gay-hate fixations (remember him, the nut preacher who protested at the funerals of straight soldiers because he thought the military was too gay-friendly?). I’m with you, GG, Lowe’s is getting my future business the way Target gets it now because I won’t set foot in a Wal-Mart. If you’ve forgotten the “Reverand” Phelps, here’s a refresher: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1453806/posts.
Over the years I have written letters that ranged from terse to turgid and from sweet to nasty but I am awed by a letter from England. Oh if only we could bitch as well as the English. Below is a copy of a letter that won a competition in the UK …have a laugh and read on.
http://tinyurl.com/bbzt2h
I’ve been doing my best to follow the economists (at least the ones accessible on the net). I minored in econ as an undergraduate, which leaves me with just enough understanding to think I understand things that I really don’t understand. Anyway, the question of tax cuts versus government spending has interested me.
Dr. Sachs writes about something that has been nagging at me during the discussion. Safe for work and family: http://tinyurl.com/d39wte
“If this is true, not another damned dime. … In the most serious economic crisis in decades, and these folks are spending the money to organize to crush labor.”
The only part I agree with is “not another damned dime.” That’s it. The “crush labor” part is laughable. Like we need unions anyways. When GM, Chrysler and Ford go completely bankrupt and lay off all those people, and all their suppliers go out of business too, are you going to finally blame the unions or is it still Bush’s fault b/c of the economy? (I know.. I know… I’m a crazy wingnut republican…)
Gulfport Mayor Brent Warr and his wife just plead not guilty to 16 counts of Katrina MDA grant-related fraud in fed court in Gulfport. Details will be forthcoming.
I saw NMC at one of Oxford’s newest burger places, Red House Burgers & Blues, last night and it reminded me that he’d addressed a question to me a few days ago (which, in that particular thread, may or may not have been more properly addressed to AFOTL) but to which I have not had time to really respond. Since this is an “open thread,” I’ll respond here and won’t feel guilty about possibly hijacking a thread.
The question posed by NMC was:
Observer, there were (and may still be for all I know) people who were at Gitmo because bounty hunters in Afghanistan turned them in for rewards, and they were on the wrong side of local disputes having nothing to do with terrorism, making them available victims for the bounty hunters.
How do you feel about them? There were a pair of Pakistani journalists, since repatriated, who had nothing, zero, zip to do with terrorism but had made the mistake of annoying the Pakistani government by advocating Pashtun nationalism. They were delivered to the US by the Pakistanis, held first at Bagram and then at Gitmo for a total of 3 years before our government concluded they were innocent.
Are you ok with that? With holding them with no process in place for that entire time that allows them to contest the circumstances of their imprisonment? Giving ourselves over to that is to give ourselves over to something the common law legal system gave up centuries ago. I’m not ok with that.
If you are ok with that, is it because they are foreigners? Our guaranties due process guaranty it for persons, not citizens, which I view as a good thing.
NMC’s statement of facts runs contrary to the actual established facts. NMC states that individuals were held “with no process in place.” As I understand it, the “process in place” was military tribunals, but that the Bush Administration had to fight every day to keep the military tribunal in place (which probably added to the delay in the release of many detainees).
It is reported that there are only approximately 250 detainees remaining at Gitmo. As I understand it, approximately 500-plus detainees have been released – so obviously there was a “process in place” for evaluating each individual case and making a determination to let some go and retain some. Unfortunately, the “process in place” is flawed – as any process will be flawed. I say it was flawed because recent news reports indicate that over 60 released detainees returned to active participation in terrorist activities against the US. Just yesterday (Tues., Jan. 27) it was reported that a released detainee, Abdallah Ali al-Ajmi, blew himself up in April 2008, killing 12 people in Mosul.
NMC, in my humble opinion, the reason you from your perspective and me from my perspective will never see the same thing, and thereby come to some agreement, is revealed in your statement about giving “ourselves over to something the common law legal system gave up centuries ago.” The actions of the United States regarding the detainees at Gitmo never has been an exercise of civil law enforcement, which would be governed by common law. Rather, in my perspective, we are at war and we should (and must!) act accordingly. Under international law, an adversary captured in a war zone who is not in a uniform may be considered a spy and may be executed. To be covered by the Geneva Convention, an adversary must meet four criteria: (1) be part of a military hierarchy; (2) wear a uniform; (3) carry arms openly; and, (4) conduct military operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. (See Part I, Article 4(2)(a-d).) None of the Gitmo detainees meet the criteria.
I am OK with the military tribunal process for non-US citizens taken into custody outside the territorial boundaries of the United States. If it takes a long time to process individuals, that’s unfortunate, but I am OK with that, too.
We now hold people like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Because his statements were obtained during waterboarding, he cannot be successfully prosecuted in a civil court (and even if he could, that would be absurd). It would be beyond stupid to release him. So what do we do with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (and others like him)? We do what we have always done with enemy detainees – we keep them detained until the cessation of hostilities. (While on the much overblown subject of waterboarding, reports indicate that only three individuals were ever waterboarded, and all three incidents occurred within six months of 9/11. The interrogation of KSM exposed a plot to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge – almost literally an actual “ticking bomb” scenario.)
People who sailed to England on board the RMS Lusitania should not have been surprised when the boat was shot out from under them by a German torpedo. Similarly, anyone in a zone where armed conflict against the US military is taking place should not be surprised if they end up being a detainee. If you don’t want to get shot at or captured, get outta Dodge. If you are present in a war zone, if you are not for us you are against us.
The guarantees of due process in the US Constitution are for persons, not only for citizens, but the Constitution’s guarantees have always been strictly limited to the water’s edge of US territory. Gitmo is not US territory – it is a military based in a foreign land which is under the command of the Commander in Chief. The Supreme Court made a horrible mistake – and over-stepped the bounds of Constitutional power – when it ruled that Gitmo detainees can challenge their detention in US courts, and Bush made a mistake by not ignoring the ruling. How would the Supreme Court react if a President, any President, told the Supreme Court which cases it would review, or that it had to affirm or reverse a specific case?
People need to remember the wise words of Don Rumsfeld, who said that the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base is the “least worse place” to house and keep people like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Ya know, we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all if Islamic terrorists hadn’t declared war on our culture and society and attacked the United States. Right now, from my POV, if you are not a US citizen and you ain’t for us, you’re against us, and if you’re against us and captured overseas in a theater of armed operations, then you should be shot – but since we don’t shoot people anymore, you can rot in Camp X-ray at Gitmo.
The LAST sensible thing to do is bring Gitmo detainees into the US, where they thereby become “persons” entitled to the full panoply of protections provided by the US Constitution.
Are you saying that if they’re not legally “persons” that we can do anything we like, Observer? Pull out their finger nails? Douse them with acid? Peel off their skin with carving knives?
lotus u might want to chek sunhearld…mayor and wife indicted
lotus check sunhearld…warrs have been indicted
lotus in a depo in biloxi (can’t use my mail for some reason)….sunhearld is showing mayor and wife warrs has been indicted..
warrs have been indicted in gulfport
Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga) apologized to Rush Limbaugh live on Limbaugh’s radio broadcast today.
ThirdSouth @ 11, you are being absurd and ignoring the context of the comment. The detainees have human rights, but not rights under the US Constitution. Once a person sets foot on US soil, the “person” has the same Constitutional rights as a “citizen.” Non-uniformed combatants captured in a war zone may be shot as spies under international law.
Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga) apologized to Rush Limbaugh live on Limbaugh’s radio broadcast today.
Well, that supports my long-held impression, Observer. To be capable of being scared by Rush Limbaugh, one must be a Republican.
I leave to others the rest of your statement.
Headlines:
Secret papers on Iraq war decision must be released, ministers told
Gordon Brown was ordered yesterday to release the minutes from crucial Cabinet meetings in 2003 which paved the way for the invasion of Iraq. The Information Tribunal ruled that secret records of Cabinet discussions in March that year must be published and that the public had a right to know what the Cabinet of the then prime minister Tony Blair decided behind closed doors on the issue of the impending war.
Rumsfeld to stand trial for war crimes?
A UN official says there is enough evidence that former US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld could be brought to justice for war crimes. The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak in an interview on Monday told CNN that the international body had enough evidence to prosecute Rumsfeld for his direct authorization of tortures at US detention centers in 2002.
KBR must be accountable for Iraq deaths-US senators
U.S. lawmakers on Tuesday raised concerns about the U.S. military’s increased use of private contractors mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan, and said KBR and other companies should be held accountable for the electrocution deaths of U.S. soldiers and other mistakes.
Halliburton Will Settle KBR Suit for $559 Million
Halliburton, the huge oil services company in Houston, said yesterday that it has agreed to pay $559 million to settle corruption charges with the U.S. government linked to its former subsidiary KBR. Halliburton said it will pay $382 million on behalf of KBR over the next two years to the Department of Justice and will pay another $177 million to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
The wisdom of crowds?
I sure would feel better about Geithner if he weren’t so pals-y with Rubin, y’know?
MoDo is unusually right-on today.
Wow, had any of y’all heard about this? From the Army Times:
I don’t think this has been linked. Frontline World ran a disturbing piece examining how the process has worked for the Uighurs detained at Gitmo: http://tinyurl.com/cgknfe
Thanks for that link, Dr X. Nauseating to know “Made in USA” is stamped on the Uighurs’ story.
Well hell. ABC has a very bad story: DoJ is investigating the CIA station chief in Algeria for drugging and raping at least two Muslim women (helpfully, he put himself on videotape doing it).
Kycol @ 6 – That complaint letter is an excellent find!
Artice about another Master of the Universe Bernie Marcus and his other Big Crusaders against lawyers most whom are already gone, and I hear he is having a bit of legal truoble himself lately.
http://www.justinian.us/2006/07/trial-article.html
i4a @ 26, do you have a link for that article? Even if it’s your own writing, it’s much too long for a folo comment. And if you’re quoting someone else, it’s a fair-use problem.
Sullivan has a nice essay on the different governing styles of GWB and BHO. Nut idea: one is about power, the other about authority.
Lotus @ 27: in case I4A is busy check this link I found using Google. http://www.justinian.us/2006/07/
“labor” means robust consumers means people to buy all the cars, widgets and gadgets these companies sell that make these fat cats rich. For them go want to cut off labor is like cutting off their nose to spite their face. Sure they can get labor for 50 cents a day in Mexico but those 50 cents a day workers can’t afford a Tahoe. Therefore these companies are going to get “broker” if they continue to exist at all.
Amen Confounded. That’s exactly why some smart CEO’s went to Congress in 2007 and asked them to please “Save the Middle Class,” pretty please. Unfortunately the message either fell on deaf ears or no one cared to listen. We are now experiencing the Renaissance in reverse. I’ll have to come up with a portmanteau for that concept.
Thanks for the help at 29, DLM.
Just peeked in at Fallows’, including his short comment on Updike, which includes the link to this recent-interview clip (his — and Rabbit Angstrom’s — thoughts on politics). For somebody who died of lung cancer yesterday, Updike seemed wonderfully robust as late as October 30. Nice to see that.
DLM @ 29. Thanks for the link on “vexatious plaintiff”. I forwarded it to my son who has an ongoing burning issue with the RIAA and their BS ways.
Wot’s the RIAA, Kycol?
For a really entertaining post and comment thread, go to this one of Benen’s. The question of whether Sweden was neutral in WWII wanders into lotsa fun.
Lotus @35: The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is a trade group that sues kids and others if they download music. They thrive on being a vexatious plaintiff, offering not to sue people for an offering of a few thousand dollars. Per the link from DLM @29: “the RIAA has brought 19,000 cases against private individuals.”
Ah, thanks, Kycol.
With regard to who finds Limbaugh scary, this clip from Benen’s afternoon round-up tells the tale:
I also enjoyed this item:
Kit’s had another wee dram or three, ‘d be my guess.
Kycol @ 34 – Thank you but the h/t should go to injustice4all who found it, I just got Lotus a link for it.
Mardi Gras is February 24th, think we can have a Folo Mardi Gras party for North Mississippi? Of course there could be celebrations at other locations, and maybe even web cams!
Lotus@38: I sure wish Limbaugh would diet, dye-it and dry up. He makes us plump white boomers look bad. As to the map on your post “Still a right-leaning country,” . Odd that the whiter the population, the redder the state. The Republicans should thank their Banker gods that Obama’s father was black or else they would’a had an even worse ass whuppin’.
A question:
I just had a small epiphany. Has anyone made or attempted to make a reasoned defense of the behavior of certain key figures in this economic debacle on the business side? This defense to be not of the larger business decisions such as loans made, reinsurance decisions forgone, but of the personal behaviors that these Capitalists gone wild in the weeks preceding the implosion and now, after it.
Mind you I am quite for the controlled combustion that is the Capitalistic system ,cos’n its been velly, velly, good to me. Nonetheless, like many of the center left with my financial state, I still consider myself closer to the hoi polloi than the elitists ( sic
) in this metric.
Rush, Billy Krystal, Mr Thain, Mr Bush, -anyone??
I am talking a reasoned thoughtful explanation not ‘all our good people will go elsewhere without access to a private jet’. Where? Neurosurgeons? CEO of Jefferson Smurfit? Steve Jobs’ position? I expect there is a large untapped pool of quantitative business guys who may want to be Rheumatologists and take a big honkin’ paycut with weekend and night call no less. MS needs more docs, only takes 7 years post college for the FP’s, 9-11 for subspecialties. Come on down!!!!
NL
I realy am asking for an answer to my ? of: Is there a reasoned defense of these people’s behavior from their defenders or is there just criticism for the proposed solutions?
The stimulus just passed in the House with nary a Republican vote (11 Dems voted nay). The other name for NAY, reports TPM, is “political suicide.” (In the Senate, Olympia Snowe has already signaled she’s on board, so McConnell’s SOL.)
And Blago’s decided he’d like a word with the Illinois senate after all . . .
Got popcorn?
Cake Wrecks is fantabulous today http://cakewrecks.blogspot.com/
Hey-DLM-this could be inspiration for Guv Palin. Seems Alaska, like the lower 48, is experiencing a tightening of the belt. She could design cakes like this and create a little revenue.
GG Do you think she has the fine motor skills required for the task?
What a POS. Matthews had Joan Walsh and hazbeen Dick Armey (that Republican Revolution didn’t work so well for him as Lotus noted in her post “Still a right-leaning country,” my fanny. Armey was, to say the least, a condescending, sexist SOB and at one point said to Walsh, “I’m glad you’re not my wife because I couldn’t listen to that mouth everyday”.
Prolly not, DLM.
Oh geege.
> sigh <
I don’t, I can’t, I’ll never understand why smart people willingly waste one second heeding stupid people, just because they show up on teevy. You go to Chris Matthews’ show, you’re assured of hearing at least one dunce. You espy Dick Armey and don’t keep clicking by, you KNOW you’ll hear something asinine.
How to sympathize with those who knowingly assume the risk?
Observer @ 16: You say spies can be shot under international law. Can you cite authority for that statement. I taught Law of Armed Conflict and Military Law during my military years, but I missed the point you stated. Please enlighten me.